Intersectional Celebrations: How Berkshire Hathaway Energy is Uplifting Juneteenth and Pride Month, with Darla Zink

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Darla Zink:

My employee resource groups, for example, my black employee resource group and my Pride Connection, my LGBTQ employee resource group, isn't even two years old yet. So two years ago, we were not talking about amplifying our black workforce for Juneteenth. We were not marching in the Juneteenth Parade. I'm so proud of what our company has done that they've put the financial resources towards it, they've funded dedicated DEI professionals, they've put time and energy and management and human resources and financial resources to advance diversity, equity, and inclusion. And I just couldn't be prouder of that.

Doug Foresta:

The Will To Change is hosted by Jennifer Brown. Jennifer is an award-winning entrepreneur, dynamic speaker, bestselling author and leadership expert on how organizations must evolve their cultures towards a new, more inclusive workplace reality. She's a passionate inclusion and equity advocate, committed to helping leaders foster healthier and therefore more productive workplaces, ultimately driving innovation and business results. Informed by nearly two decades of consulting to Fortune 500 companies, she and her team advise top companies on building cultures of belonging in times of great upheaval and uncertainty. And now onto the episode.

Hello and welcome back to The Will To Change. This is Doug Foresta. Today's episode was originally recorded as a community call and features the conversation with Berkshire Hathaway Energy CDO Darla Zink. Darla outlines her journey to the CDO role and her personal change philosophy when it comes to building inclusive organizations. You'll also hear about creative ways to gain alignment on DEI commitments with leaders and how to balance the perception that resourcing underrepresented populations can be interpreted as excluding others. All this and more. And now onto the episode.

Jennifer Brown:

Darla, welcome to the community call.

Darla Zink:

Thank you so much, Jennifer. It's a delight to be here. My name is Darla Zink. I'm Chief Diversity Officer of Berkshire Hathaway Energy, and my pronouns are she/her/hers.

Jennifer Brown:

Wonderful. My pronouns are she/her as well. And Darla, you and I are going to be meeting for the first time in Portland. You're having a big event in June. Tell us about your Pride and your Juneteenth plans. And I think you had an interesting twist happen and I wanted to hear what you're doing about that.

Darla Zink:

Thank you so much. Yes, I'm very excited to meet you in person. Berkshire Hathaway Energy is a company comprised of about 24,000 employees from around the world. We have major businesses in the United States, Canada and the UK. And we are hosting a professional development summit for our employee resource groups and all of our businesses from around the world. And the ERG leaders and leadership of our company is converging in Portland, Oregon in mid-June. And you are our keynote speaker and I can't wait to meet you in person.

Jennifer Brown:

Me too.

Darla Zink:

And it's an amazing opportunity for all of our leaders to come together at Berkshire Hathaway Energy. Our employee resource groups are virtual because we are worldwide, and so we meet monthly via Teams. And so it's going to be, the first time that many of us meet each other in person is going to be at the conference. And it's wonderful to be here with you, this Pride Month and Juneteenth month. Happy Pride, happy Juneteenth. We originally scheduled our conference to support our LGBTQ employees and their allies, but Portland, Oregon for the first time moved Pride off of Father's Day weekend in order to make room for Juneteenth.

And so it was actually a fortuitous opportunity for Berkshire Hathaway Energy because I am thrilled that we were able to pivot. And now our professional development summit is going to be centered around a celebration of Juneteenth in Portland, Oregon. And so I'm delighted to have that opportunity to support our black employees and their allies. And I'm delighted to have you present to give the keynote opening for that conference, Jennifer. So looking forward to that on June 16th.

Jennifer Brown:

Me too. And look at the picture behind you, Darla. I just wanted to highlight that. Are we going to get another picture like that? But it will be even bigger.

Darla Zink:

We are. And Berkshire Hathaway Energy, we have, I'd say maybe two major businesses. We're an energy and natural gas utility at our core. We provide electric service. So those are bucket trucks. My bucket trucks. This was last year in Des Moines, Iowa, around Pride. We had the professional development summit. And that is the parade route and downtown Des Moines, Iowa behind you. But those bucket trucks are our company's bucket trucks. The entire parade marched under that last year. And these are all of our people from around the world last year who came into Des Moines, the headquarters of Berkshire Hathaway Energy.

This same opportunity only bigger, almost double or triple in size is going to occur in Portland, Oregon this year. And that flag will be hoisted by our bucket trucks in Portland, Oregon. And that'll be a Juneteenth flag.

Jennifer Brown:

Oh, excellent. The intersectionality, I just love it. Excellent, excellent, excellent. Thank you so much. And by the way, the black and brown stripes in that flag. I just want to also harken back to our friend Amber Hikes, as some of you do not know who she is, she's been on the podcast several times, was working in the city of Philadelphia as their, I think... I forget her exact title. But they were the ones that introduced that and got the backlash to that. And it seems to be the theme that we're returning to today to say this is not the first time that we've dealt with all this. And Darla, you were inspiring me so much because I think I was having a low moment when we were preparing for this. And I said, "Darla, reinvigorate me. Tell me why."

The discomfort is actually something we can really, really use right now. Feeling that we're under siege, that there are so many doubts being expressed about the validity of our work and who we are honestly as people, the danger that some of us are in, real danger. But how do you get up in the morning and continue to do this work?

Darla Zink:

That is a great question. Thank you, Jennifer. And I identify as LGBTQ as well. My wife and I'll be together 33 years this year. And to your point, June is special to me as Pride Month. It's special to me in support of our black employee workforce and their allies. But I don't think there's any denying that the resistance maybe is amped up a little bit in the environment that we're in, both in the United States and worldwide, frankly. And I know we have a number of guests with us that are from outside the United States. But to me, as DEI practitioners, we know that there's resistance out there. We have to be prepared for it. And growth occurs if there's discomfort.

And I always ask my leaders to lean into that discomfort. We talk about, discomfort is where growth occurs, lean into it, get comfortable being uncomfortable. All of these things are things that we ask our leaders to do. We ask our workforce to do. So guess what? It applies to us too. And in times like this, to me, when we are experiencing that fierce resistance, we need to lean into that and hit the gas. If we are experiencing resistance, what does it mean to me? It means that we're being successful. It means that we've got momentum. It means that people are pushing back to us because they feel threatened. And those are the things that we need to lean into because that means we're going to succeed.

So to me, in times like this, we hit the gas, we don't back off, we continue the fight and amp it up, take it to the next level and get there faster, stronger, better together.

Jennifer Brown:

Yes. I think it elevates our game as we're challenged, right? Because it challenges us to think about it differently, to teach it differently, to approach it perhaps differently. And I think that broadens our toolkit as practitioners. We're constantly, I think, having to not reinvent. And we know the truth is the truth. There's no fake news about DEI. But there are a lot of different approaches and tactics, and there's a lot of ways to get there. And we see those differences organization to organization and leader to leader and industry to industry. Darla, tell us about the structure. What about BHE's structure makes it easier and harder at the same time to move the needle on DEI.

Darla Zink:

Thank you for that question. Yes. Berkshire Hathaway Energy, and my role is at the corporate parent. And then we have several major businesses, approximately 10, that are subsidiaries. And my role as chief diversity officer is to set strategy for Berkshire Hathaway Energy to define that north star, to give us something to look forward to. And then each of the businesses, some of them have dedicated diversity, equity, and inclusion professionals, which is great. The businesses make the decisions on how to advance those strategies in the manner that works best for them.

So it may be a little different between each of the businesses. So my Canadian subsidiary may do something a little bit different than my United Kingdom subsidiary, than my subsidiary headquartered in Portland, Oregon, or my subsidiary headquartered here in Omaha, Nebraska, where I am. So the beauty of that is that hopefully it allows every business to do what works for them. And the challenge with that is, unlike many other businesses, we do not have a centralized office of the chief diversity officer that covers all of our employee base.

And so I like to look at that as an opportunity. I can't deny that it sometimes presents challenges when you're trying to synthesize a message across 24,000 employees. And our businesses are somewhat different. I have a very large subsidiary that's a real estate business. And so that, combined with the fact that I've got a energy utility, delivering natural gas and electricity, and just different industries, different businesses, and very different models in the sense that the energy industry is male dominated, it has a large field workforce. We're often in rural areas.

And for example, the real estate business is female dominated. And almost 80% women in that business. And very different approaches. And it sometimes requires different tactics.

Jennifer Brown:

Thanks, Darla. It's so true. And you can be in an influencing role, but you can't necessarily dictate how things are interpreted. And it's such a challenge for a small team to stretch across all of that. But at the same time, I would imagine you probably, on some level, enjoy seeing how different businesses grasp different concepts and really resonate with them given the problems they're trying to solve because of those unique characteristics that you just pointed out. And we'll get to those in a moment. I wanted to welcome any questions from the audience for Darla and me, and there are a few actually already. There are questions, for example, Darla, you can be thinking about this, and I don't know if you feel comfortable addressing it, the intersection of DEI and ESG at your company. Is that something you can weigh in on or would you punt?

Darla Zink:

Sure.

Jennifer Brown:

Okay.

Darla Zink:

Yeah. No, sure, I can do that. Yes. I work very closely with Berkshire Hathaway Energy's chief sustainability officer. I view our diversity, equity and inclusion strategy frankly as a key component of the sustainability of our business. Berkshire Hathaway Energy's vision is to be the best energy company in serving our customers while delivering sustainable energy solutions. And that portion of sustainability also impacts our workforce. It's the people portion, right? If we're unable to attract, hire, retain, and create an inclusive environment for all, we won't be able to be a sustainable organization. And so to me, they are inextricably interconnected.

Jennifer Brown:

I'm just explaining in chat that the S in ESG is for social. Social, environmental, governance, right? But the sustainability is another S, which I like what you're saying. And interestingly, both are experiencing headwinds in particular right now. So I think this is another case where we are stronger together. And have you found, Darla, that that indeed partnering or having that sort of one voice and that consistency and that alignment has really actually helped create a one plus one equals three, particularly in times when there are those headwinds happening?

Darla Zink:

I have, Jennifer. And one of the ways that I could give an example to your guests is, for example, the chief sustainability officer of Berkshire Hathaway Energy and I, the chief diversity officer, we have partnered together to form a steering committee with our teams that lead philanthropy and volunteerism. And when you think about environmental, social and governance, all aspects of that, including diversity, equity, and inclusion, which I think of, as you nodded, as a part of the social aspect of ESG, they impact philanthropy and volunteerism.

And so for example, our Juneteenth celebration that you're going to be a part of, I mean, it is organized by our philanthropy and volunteerism team. Our chief sustainability officer will be there. I will be there. All of these things advance both sustainability, ESG and DEI. And so, to your point, stronger together.

Jennifer Brown:

Beautiful. I think whenever we can do that, it's really important. And Madeline, thank you for the comment. It's interesting. Each company positions this function in a different place. Sometimes, the sustainability is the umbrella objective and DEI is an element of vertical within it, if you will. And then sometimes, others, it's a risk issue. So it rolls up into that. Yeah, it plays with that reward and fear drivers. And there are many drivers that are effective in companies. I would say competition even amongst your different subs, Darla, as we were talking about, is really healthy to engender as well, because everybody appealing to the competitive nature of our leaders is a really, I think, a very effective way to get buy-in and involvement and participation and commitment.

So there's a lot of different kinds of drivers. There's another comment here. Are we concerned about the question of greenwashing? David, thank you for that. Yeah. And who are people giving money to out of sight and how do we bring that into alignment? And also looking at the giving and the commitments externally, but then the composition of the leadership teams. So Darla, how do you navigate that? Because we are still dealing with, and your industry and your company is very typical, dealing with a lack of different kinds of diversity and representation in the C-suite and the executive level.

And so it's just a question of, I know that work takes much longer. It takes much longer to shift a system from a representation standpoint. I like to actually say that representation is a lagging indicator. And what needs to be the front end of that is real equity work and real inclusiveness and inclusion to prepare the ground, if you will, of the organizational culture so that we can bring more of kinds of diversity in that we can plant those seeds and they will take root so that they will flourish, so that they will be pulled up that pipeline to make it to that C-suite.

So it's a lagging indicator because I think if you fix it quickly, you might've fixed it cosmetically, but you haven't fixed it systemically. So Darla, how do you look at that situation? Because it's not certainly unique to your company or even your industry, it's everywhere. And it seems to be very slow to change.

Darla Zink:

Indeed, it is. This work is like water on stone. And you just have to remain vigilant and resilient and continue the effort and take those wins. But to your point, it's both diversity and inclusion. At Berkshire Hathaway Energy, we talk about how diversity is personal characteristics and how people identify. And to your point, changing those diversity demographics is a slow process. But inclusion is a feeling. And in my mind, a successful diversity and inclusion strategy leads to equity. And equity is a goal that we never reach. We continue seeking greater and greater equity, and that's by breaking down systems and policies and practices and barriers that exist, but it is a goal that is always aspirational.

And to the extent we move closer and closer to equity, then we need to raise the bar and we need to challenge ourself to do more. And that's what we try to do every year at Berkshire Hathaway Energy. I try to set aspirational goals for our businesses and then those in collaboration with them, of course. It's not unique to me. And then our workforce, our leaders, our CEOs of our businesses, they work towards those goals in the manner that works for their business the best. And so to me, yes, it is slow, but look at where we've come. You have to also stay focused on... My employee resource groups, for example, my black employee resource group and my Pride Connection, my LGBTQ employee resource group isn't even two years old yet.

So two years ago, we were not talking about amplifying our black workforce for Juneteenth. We were not marching in the Juneteenth parade like we're going to do in a couple of weeks with you, Jennifer. Two years ago, while we may have been supportive to our LGBTQ employees and their allies, we didn't have the show of support that you just showed, the beautiful picture of the mosaic of all of my employee resource groups coming together to support the LGBTQ community and their allies from all around the world.

And so I am so proud of that. I'm so proud of what our company has done that they've put the financial resources towards it, they've funded dedicated DEI professionals, they've put time and energy and management and human resources and financial resources to advance diversity, equity, and inclusion. And I just couldn't be prouder of that.

Jennifer Brown:

That's amazing. So to avoid utilizing DEI as a front, if you will, and then the words don't match the music, Darla, when things come across your desk like, "Oh, we want to do this, we want to do that," do you have a role of saying, "Hold on. Let's back up and let's make sure that this isn't performative, that this isn't for the image, and let's make sure that we are doing the work." Do you find yourself in conversations like that? And how do you make it real when it begins as they want to do something, and maybe performative?

And sometimes, performativity is not intentional. Sometimes, it is because our stakeholders don't know what good looks like, right? They're just grabbing onto something and saying, "Oh, we need to do this. We need to join this. We need to make sure we have a voice there." But your job is to grab it and tie it down to the ground and say, "If we do this and we say this, then here's all the mechanics of what really needs to accompany that," I would think. And I'm sure you're great at that. I think that's also part of David's question, and it's such a good one. How do we help our companies make it real and make it something that we can stand behind because we know that it's not just on the outside.

Darla Zink:

Absolutely. I am vigilant about making sure that our diversity, equity, and inclusion strategies are not performative. Now, how do you do that? I think that your diversity, equity and inclusion strategy, to me, is judged by the actions or the inactions of your leaders. Okay? We have to move away from, and we have as a goal... I saw a question from our audience about what are examples of some of the goals. Our goals for 2023 are focused on leadership accountability. And when you talk about diversity, equity, and inclusion, to me, it's about leadership. That's not just senior leadership, although they have a disproportionate role to play, certainly it's leadership at all levels, and including up to and including people who don't have direct reports.

We are all diversity, equity, and inclusion leaders in our own right. You can be a catalyst for change if you are an individual contributor. And to me, to make sure that things aren't performative... For example, we have a goal that our diversity, equity and inclusion strategy needs to move beyond diversity calendar events, move beyond food fun and festivals, and actually take it to the point where we've got active engagement by thought, word and deed from our leaders, including me, including our senior leadership, and up to and including leader throughout the organization that embrace and champion diversity, equity, and inclusion.

And that is a leadership expectation for us at our company. And that is to embrace and champion diversity, equity, and inclusion. And those words are powerful and meaningful to me. Embrace and champion. And to me, that goes far beyond performative.

Jennifer Brown:

All right. That's where we want to get. Yes, agreed, Darla. Thank you for sharing some of those. And you just said food fun, famous people flags, festivals. There's a lot of the other F words.

Darla Zink:

Yeah.

Jennifer Brown:

But we really do need to do all those things, and at the same time, be constantly doing more systemic things. And I think that's the harder work, but it's the work of real lasting change. It gets into the muscle of the organization, versus the clothing.

Darla Zink:

And internal versus external, right?

Jennifer Brown:

Yes.

Darla Zink:

Certainly, there is a visible external aspect of sponsorship, of parades, and that show of support that a company and its employee workforce and allies would have. But that had better be the end of two years of work for your black employee resource group where you've shown through your actions that you are supportive of your employees so that it's not just perceived to be performative. And to me, you've got to lay the groundwork for that. And I am vigilant about that. We are vigilant about our representation.

For example, we are representing our black employee workforce. We are careful to make sure that we are centering blackness when we are doing that. And I just think that's important because as diversity, equity and inclusion professionals, we have to de-center ourselves and look at things through lens of another. And it's incumbent upon us to do that, to understand and advance our strategy across differences that we're not a part of.

Jennifer Brown:

How do you avoid having the ERGs take on all the responsibility for change and doing the labor on behalf of the organization? It sounds to me like, one of the things is what you just said, which is like sitting the accountability squarely on the lapse of leaders to say you have just as important if not more of an important role. But I know that sometimes, and it is very important at the same time, to return to those affected by the inequities in every workforce to say, what's going on? What solutions? What are the remedies? What does allyship really, really look like?

To me, it's always this interesting conundrum of needing the labor because you want that voice to be driving and steering the priorities and the definition of success and the definition of what does improvement look like. But you don't want to overburden those who have already been burdened with organizational change, unfairly and unreasonably burdened. So how do you balance that, Darla? I think it's exactly embedded in your strategy that you were just talking about.

Darla Zink:

To your point, it is a balance. Right? We all know that exhaustion can occur on marginalized groups as a result of diversity, equity, and inclusion strategy. But for example, we utilize the resources of Jennifer Brown Consulting. When we talk about leadership accountability, your model for how to be an inclusive leader from your book is, it's simple and it's complex, and it's something that members of marginalized groups can easily internalize and see and look at, am I unaware? Am I aware? Am I moving toward activation? Am I an advocate?

One of the things that we did at Berkshire Hathaway Energy is, during the month of April, every single one of our employee resource groups chose allies, what they thought of as super allies, meaning members. Not members of the marginalized group represented by the affinity group, represented by the employee resource group. But they selected people who, through thought, word and action, had demonstrated almost super allyship. And for the whole month of April, we showcased that across all of our different affinities, and we gave a call to action to everyone as to what you could do to activate your allyship.

And every affinity has a little bit different lens on that, right? So what you might do to show your allyship for our Asian and Pacific Islander workforce or our Latino, Latina, Latinx workforce might be a slightly different lens than what you might show for our black workforce or our LGBTQ workforce. And it was so interesting to listen to the call to action for each of those affinities as they were centered during that time of the month, of their monthly meeting of our employee resource group.

Jennifer Brown:

That's so beautiful. And I know, I often say this, I was the recipient of so much allyship as a member of the community. And these days, I feel so activated as an aspiring ally. That feels very up for me, and has for the last five or six years. And it's just really fascinating that I think we need to recognize how we carry all of these things in us, that we have so much capacity to be the ally, and that we have so much work to do and improvement to do in ourselves on our ally journey, even as we carry marginalized identities.

And I think it's an aha. Once you get it, you get it. And you're like, "Oh, okay. I can be many things in this system. And the system either privileges me or it does not privilege me." Or maybe a little bit, because it's a combination of, I'm sitting in the middle like many of us do. And we can pivot this way, we can pivot that way, and we can provide help differently than we need help. But we can be doing all these things at once. And I think the ERG members, I'm so glad that you had something formal to say, let's make this very concrete. What does this look like for your community? But also, who are you to other communities? That, to me, feels very, very relevant these days.

Because we must... To your point, when we are tackling these really tough times, we've got to keep it coming. We've got to keep the pressure on. But that's counter to, I think, the level of fatigue that some of us have on the front lines. And so the reinforcements coming in. To me, the reinforcements comes from allyship. It's literally like the relay race so that you get tired and you've run your lap and you have somebody you can hand that baton off to and know that they're going to keep running and know that they're not going to fall behind because they're ready and they're rested.

And to me, when you are in the ally role, you are rested, because you haven't been tackling and dealing with all of those microaggressions, all of that struggle for psychological safety. So in a perfect world, we would be coordinating in that way and have it be seamless.

Darla Zink:

I completely agree. And I love what you said about the relay race. Because the other thing is, if your marginalized groups are suffering from exhaustion because they feel as though they're carrying a heavier burden to advance diversity, equity, and inclusion strategy, I think about just for myself, because I'm a member of both dominant groups and marginalized groups, as most everyone is, maybe everyone, right? I almost think everyone. But for me, when an ally speaks, how uplifting that is, how powerful that is, especially when that ally is a member of senior leadership, especially when that ally carries privilege, power, and access in the company.

Those things. When you have an ally who speaks up unequivocally in advancement of diversity, equity, and inclusion, when they are a member of a dominant group, it ripples. And to me, that's the power of trying to get leadership accountability and leadership activation regardless of how one identifies. If you have eyes looking upward towards leaders, and they have the right language, the right activation, they're present at employee resource groups, they appear at things that are important to the affinity, now you've converted those positive thoughts into word, action and deed. And now, the employees see, I've got leaders who believe in this, this is not performative.

Jennifer Brown:

Excellent. Yeah, absolutely. I'm so glad we're talking about this. We have so many questions. I'm looking at some of them. Yeah, there's a question. Thank you, Kanette. The question of the word ally. "I use the term co-conspirator," you say, "because it represents someone with skin in the game. That is, our humanity and liberation are tied to one another. We need co-conspirators." I like that a lot. Being in it as opposed to standing on the shore and watching someone struggle is, I think, so helpful to keep in mind, and is a nuance, but it has a different energy to me.

So I wonder, Darla, is there a conversation about those words going on amongst you and your colleagues? Or how you personally think about it? Is the word ally popular with your colleagues? Is it something that people have issue with? Have you investigated different words? This is always an ongoing debate.

Darla Zink:

It is. I like the word co-conspirator too. We use the word ally just because, maybe for ease. But I do agree that the level of activation, it's like your inclusive leader continuum, right? You can't name yourself an ally, right? The member of the marginalized group needs to designate you as an ally, because until they say you are, you aren't. Or until the member of the affinity recognizes you as such, perhaps you haven't done enough. And I know how good it feels when you are selected to be a super ally for an affinity. What a compliment. Is there any higher compliment that at least people are looking at you and saying, "You are enough." But for myself, I am never satisfied. I am always seeking more. I'm always trying to raise the bar. So we don't use the term co-conspirator, but I like it.

Jennifer Brown:

I do too. I love it. There's a lot of different words. And yeah, I think that also the ally reaching down with having the privileges, I think, also misses the opportunity that all of us at every level in every respect can be reaching up, we can be reaching across with allyship. I always think of the example with the Better Man Conference that some of you may have attended that we're such a deep part of. I feel very much like an aspiring ally to the men that attend that. And there may be that power differential between us that actually does not put me in a, privilege wise, in a superior role.

But my lived experience gives me privilege. My understanding of my experience and what I can share comes with a lot of moral authority and a lot of credibility. And I am the mentor. I am the person that is supporting that person on their inclusive leader journey. And I think that that energy, to me, feels like I am a co-conspirator because, by the way, I'm in it with them. I want them to succeed. This isn't just something that is, "Oh, take it if you want it." I'm really in it, because I'm very committed to your growth. I'm committed. And I am here to do whatever alongside you as you pivot through your own, hopefully not obstacle course, your own journey.

So I think of it as 360 degrees and whatever word can capture that, so that all of us are employing it at all times. And I think I like that better because it's not so rigidly hierarchical, and it's not about who has it all and who doesn't have it, because that's never been accurate.

Darla Zink:

I agree with that. And when you think about the role of a diversity, equity and inclusion professional, it's different. And to your point, I like what you said about you are an ally to the Better Man Conference. As diversity, equity and inclusion professionals, we've got a bunch of hats that we have to wear, right? Sometimes you're a catalyst, sometimes you are bearer of bad news, sometimes you are an encourager, sometimes you are the person who says you can do this. Because statistics tell us that 20% of people may not be reachable when it comes to diversity, equity, inclusion. 20% of people may be advocates. And statistics vary.

But roughly, we're trying to reach the 60% of the people in the middle and activate them and bring them around to engaging in those behaviors so that that creates a culture at the company of inclusion. Because at the end of the day, what I have to do is I have to have a feeling of inclusion at my company so that every single person, regardless of how they identify, feels welcomed and heard with a sense of belonging at Berkshire Hathaway Energy. And that's what I'm striving for. But that requires you to wear a bunch of different hats and to be an ally to everyone regardless of where they are starting from.

Jennifer Brown:

Oh, last part, that's really good. Regardless of where they're starting from. Because we all are beginners on some level around something. And so the humility we need to carry with us is to say, I need the help as I am advancing in my journey, and none of us is an expert on all things. I love that too, because that leaves so much room to say, we're never done, we are work in progress, and acknowledging we can be multiple places in our journey at the same time. I can feel that virtual sigh of relief when I teach that point with the continuum because it goes from unaware to aware, to advocate. And I say, look, I myself end in different places in this journey, depending on which identity I am speaking of.

I'm really very much in the early days, just learning, just realizing my own biases about certain identities. And others, I'm advocate level where I'm swinging every day, fearlessly, courageously, consistently. I'm the voice because I know what to say and I know how to say it, and I have that expertise. But in many respects, I don't have the expertise. I think, meeting people where they're at on that front. I wonder, Darla, you just mentioned, which hat do I wear? Which hat is needed in this moment? I think we need to be mindful of the hats we wear. Choose the right one. Be prepared to meet that moment, not just the person, but the moment in terms of what is needed.

Is a hard conversation needed? Is encouragement needed? Is recognition needed? Is space needed? With no solutions. Is a listening ear, is mentorship and sponsorship needed? Right? Sometimes these things, the hats we wear are concrete support and real power sharing, whether that's public or private, known or not known to us. So there's just so many hats, which makes it really interesting to think about it in that way. I think we're all much more flexible than we realize. I know. But it just takes naming these different roles that we play and understanding where we have the influence and power in the system in question, which changes day to day. It can really depend, right?

Darla Zink:

It can depend, and it can depend on the system or the relationships when you think about trust. And one of your previous guests says, trust is the engine of business. Boy, isn't that true? It's the relationships and whether or not you've developed trust with the person that you're speaking with. Because sometimes when you need to have those hard conversations... Which is why I love your waterline visual that you use, Jennifer. Because we've been encouraging our leaders to be more vulnerable, to show empathy. That is a great way to engage in diversity, equity, and inclusion conversations is to lower your waterline.

And to me, vulnerability is that thing that you seek from everyone else, but you are the least likely to give of yourself. So using your waterline diagram is very helpful because all of the things that are below the waterline... And I'll admit I have some too. And I've tried in smaller settings lowering my own waterline and trying to get comfortable doing that. But sometimes when I feel the most vulnerable, again, that's where we started this conversation, that's when I lean into it because I know I'm asking everyone else to get comfortable being uncomfortable, and I have to apply those same rules to myself.

And I've had difficult conversations. There are people. Resistance exists. Sometimes, that comes in the form of attacking the speaker. It can be personalized to us as DEI professionals, being afraid of being alleged to be woke or politically correct or all of those things. That can be hurtful. At the same time, as a DEI professional, I try not to personalize that because I know that it's a defense mechanism from the speaker. All of resistance in my mind comes back to fear of some kind or another. Fear of loss of power, fear of change of the status quo, fear of speaking truth to power, fear of not saying the right thing or not being able to do the right thing, and so remaining silent instead.

And often, all we need to do is push through those aspects of fear into that discomfort zone, and that's where growth occurs.

Jennifer Brown:

That's beautiful. Absolutely. Absolutely. Hear to that. And we're almost out of time, but that was a beautiful call to action, Darla. Because if we're not feeling uncomfortable, we're probably not leading. I always think about that and take a deep breath and jump back in and continue to push. When we don't have the answers is precisely where the innovation happens. And it's been so encouraging to hear your words today. And I know that you're in a tricky industry. But I hope everybody has heard this today as also an example I think of. There's a question about your ultimate boss saying certain things in the public sphere and then listening to you and the strategy that's going on.

And to me, it speaks to not to maybe have to reconcile those things. It's frustrating. It's perhaps confusing mixed messaging. But speaking to you, Darla, about your robust strategy is I think really important for people to realize that there are many, many parts of every company. There's many aspects, there's many personalities, there's many different ways of expressing certain things. And yes, some of us may wish that things were said differently in order to support our work differently. But I also find as a consultant just so many years that I can never really globally make a statement about a company.

Because to me, meeting somebody like you in a company that I thought X about, and now I understand Y, it's like the Chick-fil-A conversation we started with this hour. Which was that, I had no idea they had a DEI function that was being supported and is growing and is succeeding. So the ability to hold a lot of these truths at the same time and recognize that progress happens in pockets, it happens in places, it happens because of leaders like you, Darla, and certain senior leaders, those ally champions, those super allies that are being recognized.

I think when we're looking to hang our hat, I think we've got to remember and remind ourselves that allyship is everywhere. And leaders like you are everywhere, Darla, too. And our ERGs are strong, or our communities are not going away. We are not letting up. We are not relenting. We know that demographic is on our side. We know that the future is changing for business, and that businesses must take this seriously and begin to embed these practices in order to pivot successfully and to survive and to thrive.

To feel that wind at our back as we start this Pride Month, I hope you all feel energized. And Darla, I know you're a little quiet on social media. Is there a way for people to get in touch with you? I always like to ask my guests that. I know you're a bit incognito.

Darla Zink:

No. I am not particularly active on social media, but I'm happy to receive feedback from your guests via email.

Jennifer Brown:

Thank you.

Darla Zink:

So yeah, sure. And thank you so much, Jennifer. I really appreciate the opportunity to share your platform, I think the world of you and your work. And we are delighted to be able to host you in Portland, Oregon later this year.

Jennifer Brown:

Thank you.

Hi, this is Jennifer. Did you know that we offer a full transcript of every podcast episode on my website over at jenniferbrownspeaks.com? You can also subscribe so that you get notified every time a new episode goes live. Head over there now to read my latest thoughts on diversity, inclusion and the future of work, and discover how we can all be champions of change by bringing our collective voices together and standing up for ourselves and each other.

Doug Foresta:

You've been listening to The Will To Change: Uncovering True Stories of Diversity & Inclusion with Jennifer Brown. If you've enjoyed the episode, please subscribe to the podcast on iTunes. To learn more about Jennifer Brown, visit jenniferbrownspeaks.com. Thank you for listening, and we'll be back next time with a new episode.